Dialogue with R: Anti-gay protests in the name of Jesus???

Years ago, a coach came into my life who taught me a whole lot about the game of tennis. He made me a better player and helped me a great deal on the tennis court. Now as an adult, R. as come back in my life not as a tennis coach but as a friend.
Before you read this post, it is very important that I explain my relationship with R because many of you who read this are likely either members of Council Road or at least coming from a Christ-following world view. I can promise you this, R. will bring up some issues that will challenge all of our beliefs. I told R. that I was going to blog about the latest issue he threw out at me and I hope to blog about other issues that we discuss because I really think that those of us in the church don't think about things from the perspective of those who don't follow Christ.

Here is what you need to know about my relationship with R.

1. He is my friend and I accept him as he is.
2. He does not believe what I believe about God and is not planning on embracing my beliefs.
3. He is a person, who most of us who read this site would consider as our Mission Field. R genuinely thinks from the perspective of the un-churched and I believe that perspective is extremely beneficial.
4. Even though R. is un-churched, in our relationship, we have an understanding that he is not my reclamation project and I am not his narrow minded Christian target to destroy.
5. We choose to have a genuine friendship in which he can ask me honest questions from an un-churched perspective and I can ask him honest questions from the Christian perspective. We should all respect him.

Now here is the dialogue:



Hey Chris;
How are you doing. I just came across something that i'll use as evidence on why many people can't stand self righteous grand standing christians and how easily christians will follow the stupidest movments.

here it is

anti-gay protests held by the Rev. Fred Phelps at military funerals.

Phelps believes American deaths in Iraq are divine punishment for a country that he says harbors homosexuals. His protesters carry signs "thanking God" for so-called IEDs — explosives that are a major killer of soldiers in Iraq.

Here is a nut case clothed in religion harassing families at funerals that are trying to just bury their dead sons, daughters, husbands, and wives.

I would expect if it were religious families getting harrassed all churches far and wide would be "up in arms" at this insult but since it is a religious person doing this I expect no backlash towards him from any church organization.

There should be Pastors from all denominations condeming this farce.



Just thought I would share this with you and challenge you and your church to condemn this "protest"

Well on a lighter note I hope you stayed warm last weekend I read it was very chilly in OKC.

Do you thing Superman had a difficult time deciding if his "outfit" would have

blue leotards with RED boots or red leotards with BLUE boots!!

see ya later


Hey R.

How is it going? I am sorry to hear about this guy protesting at military funerals. What stinks is that many people look at a guy like that and assume that is the way followers of Christ act. There is a pastor in Kansas who is doing something similar. He has been sending members to Oklahoma to do that. There was a pastor in Tulsa who was preaching the funeral of a service man killed in his church and he did a great job in the media communicating that their actions are not found anywhere in the Bible. It is interesting that you sent this to me because we had a conversation just yesterday in our staff with an advertising consultant. The crux of the conversation was that many churches and denominations are known more by what they are against rather than known for what they are for. I think that this is very unfortunate and as a leader in my church, I really do want to change that.

I learned something this year on a Mission trip to Guanajuato Mexico this year. In Mexico some have stopped using the word "Cristianos" (Christian) to describe genuine believers. They now use the term "Creyentes" (Believer) to describe authentic Christ followers. The Bible clearly speaks that they will know that we are Christians by our love. I don't see that in people like this. Jesus also clearly tells us that you can look at the fruit on a tree to describe what kind of fruit it is. When I hear about guys like this pastor, it does not match up with the fruit I see in the Bible. People do follow stupid movements, all types and backgrounds have followed all kinds of stupid stuff. I know that you understand this but just because someone attaches Christian beside their name, does not mean that they are representing Christ. Jesus himself said in the sermon on the mount, "Many will come to me and say Lord, we did all this stuff in your name and He will say "Depart from me because I never knew you."

I know that I probably won't be able to influence this Pastor Fred guy but I can tell you, my church won't be doing something like that.

OK, my blog sight that you had a part of.... www.betheballchriswall.blogspot.com Somewhere along the way someone told me to Be the Ball. It was probably you. Be prepared if you read this, I do talk about church stuff on that blog so love and accept me for who I am. If I ever do something Reverend Fred Phelpsish, you better call me on it.

In regard to Superman, If you are man enough to kick someones butt wearing leotards and spandex, you are worth following in my book.

Have a great day bro. It was good to hear from you.

Chris Wall

Chris:
Well I'll admit your email was encouraging. I agree with you assessment that most religions are known more by what they are against than what they stand for. I am encouraged by your discussions at your church and can see nothing but good things that can come from being open minded. Remember there was no greater rebel in history than the man named Jesus. His teachings were very revolutionary and against the status quo. Hence the danger he presented to the Roman Empire by empowering the radical idea that all peoples were worth something no matter what level they were born to. Wow think of that in today's light, no matter what your clothes or wealth or boyfriend or athletic prowess or skin color or cool name or weight or hair style etc. that we are all worthy or self worth. The Roman Empire based on slave labor was very shook to its core by the thought of empowered slaves, hell the United States went to war over this very thing!!
Altough I don't adhere to organized religion any more I do believe many of its teachings are valid and without it the western world with its democracies would never have evolved. All our equal regardless of sin sounds very similar to our constitution which is based on the Magna Carte among other doctrines.
Take care you rebel rouser, being liberal has a danger all to itself especially in Oklahoma.
Red tight with blue boots or blue tights with red boots!!!??? oh the dilema of being a super hero!!
R

A Family, not a Business

Over the past several weeks, I have had multiple conversations with people about a recurring statement that keeps slipping out of our pastors heart as we have been digging into Ephesians on Sunday mornings. Rick continues to tell our church that we are not a business, we are a family. Though this statement has not been a major point in any message, it has been leaking from our pastor and I do think that the Lord is trying to teach us something very important. As I look at the calling and mission of our church, it is critical that we function as a family and not a business. We must do whatever we can to resist this consumer mentality that has infiltrated so many churches in America.

Don't get me wrong, every week we have guests that visit our church and we do need to do a good job of making them feel welcome. We also need to be excellent at accepting new people and bringing them into our family. I do the same thing at my own house. When a guest comes over, my wife and I make sure that our house is clean, the floor is vacummed and the meal for the guest is prepared well. We absolutely must have the same attitude when it comes to welcoming new people each week. However, when it comes to the way we interact with our church family, our church experience should go deeper than consuming and move into accomplishing a Divine mission by living life together.

I think that the Lord has been using our pastor to communicate that being a part of a local church is a bigger deal than we realize. Sometimes we get caught up in our individual wants and desires and miss our purpose to the larger body of believers. Recently, I had a conversation with a person who was considering leaving my church. This person said to me, "I didn't think that my leaving here would be that big of a deal." I have thought about this statement a lot over the past few weeks. If my daughter came up to me and told me, "Dad, I think I am going to leave our family because I think this family down the street is much better than ours." I would be devastated because she is my daughter and I love her so much. I realize that this example is extreme but I am trying to make a point that swapping churches is a very big deal. When looking at your church, it is important to take a deep look at your calling and your connection to the mission. Sometimes I think people look for a church like they are looking for a spiritual sweater. We must understand that it is so much deeper than this. I believe that all believers are called to a local church. I know that many of us have heard this statement many times but I want to challenge you to really think about it. You are called by God to a family of believers. Like our pastor said in a recent sermon, "If you go to Foley's, you are not going to sweep the floor before you leave the store because that is a business and it is not your job to take care of things like that." On the other hand, when you go to your house, it is critical for you to take care of your chores because as a member of that family you have responsibilities that fulfill your purpose in your house. I want to ask you to think about your attitude at church. Have you adopted the consumeristic mentality or do you see yourself as a part of a family with a purpose. We must work hard at growing a family at Council Road. Our job is not to build numbers in pews on 30th and Council. Our job is to make a difference in OKC. If we are going to do that, we have to build a strong family. If you are genuine follower of Christ, you are called by God to be a part of a local family. Your connection to this family is not based on how you feel, it is based on the mission that God has given to you. Your church is not a business, it is a family, I challenge you not to neglect that calling by God.